Hello Racers,

After last night's successful Brazilian host test we have now expanded that system.

You can now start a host in Netherlands, USA, Japan, Brazil, Australia, Hong Kong, Turkey.

You need Test Patch W59 to do that.

We can't guarantee that all these locations will remain available, but we would like your feedback on how well they do work for you.

Last edited by Scawen, Mon 13 Dec 2021, 16:51.

Changes from W57 to W58:

Car selection images redone with LFS S3 on number plates
Small RB4 update: rear wheel 10mm forward / reverted default setup
- NOTE: Hosts must update to W58 or there will be OOS with RB4 GT
Message "Copied to clipboard" when clicking on in-game host IP:Port
As a TEST you can now start an in-game host on a Brazil server
- South Americans please test and let us know the results

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95664

Quote from valiugera :

I tried everything what you said but i still have issue. Only one thing i found. It work normal when i changed textures to "alpha test" but that option destroyed the texture quality..

Alpha test is not recommended at all and should be avoided except in very exceptional circumstances.

I am sure the alpha sorting is possible. I can only conclude you are not making sure the correct materials are being drawn in the correct order (by looking at the material numbers in the list of cutouts and drawing the inside windows first). It is not really possible for me to debug your mesh by looking at screenshots.

Quote from Snoop.DriftEra :

valiugera, same here. Alpha in new version does not work as supposed to. Looks like the depth of alpha has changed. Was no problem on 0.6U.

I don't think you are talking about the same thing at all. valiugera is talking about alpha sorting, while you are talking about alpha quality?

I can't make much use of random screenshots of vehicles I don't have, of unspecified VOB mods which were never supported. If you want me to fix something, I need concrete, testable, reproducible results.

Eric said I could do an editor export of his RB4 updates from today so you can check if the bugs you reported have been fixed, in advance of another test patch tomorrow. The veh and steering animation are attached.

This is only for use in the EDITOR!

Well, it's a test patch, and the idea of test patches are to contain absolutely everything that will be in the official version - to get it thoroughly tested. So, from that you can deduce that the new graphical system will not be in next week's official release!

I has a quick go at trying the supersampling method. The first test was to draw without AA enabled. I already came across a problem, the triangle edge lines, with triangles drawn in wireframe mode, do not look as I would expect a simple line drawing function to work. So this would require more experimentation and there isn't time at the moment.

Anyway, a test version is now available. I have a question, should both the black wireframe on white background, and the white wireframe on black background, both be available? Or is one of them definitely better and so I shouldn't even have the function for the other one?


EDITOR update W55:

New buttons to create skin templates in 'page' mode:
- create shaded skin texture
- black and white skin texture
- white background wireframe
- black background wireframe

Number of points and triangles per spoke object now depends on the
number of spokes - maximum for all spokes of a wheel is now 1600

FIX: Mouse direction (for selecting triangles, etc) was calculated
wrongly if aspect ratio of visible area was wider than 16:9

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95664

Quote from Flame CZE :

I tried the black and white one at 2048 then scaled down to 1024 and 512 and there are small seams visible when scaled down.

Thanks for the test. I've attached one that does 12 around in a circle, with an offset of 4 pixels (in the 2048 case). Please let me know if this solves the problem. [EDIT - I've added a better one 2 posts down]

Quote from timdecnodder :

This is almost perfect, do we still get to add a custom section into the template or will it be locked after autorender?

It's purely "copy to clipboard" so you can do whatever you want with it before actually saving it.

Last edited by Scawen, Tue 7 Dec 2021, 19:40.

Options... are good but sometimes cause confusion. How will this really work anyway? Will the mod creator do skin template exports for people when requested, catering for every possible slight adjustment?

This started as a "bug fix" because the existing mapping/cutout screenshot system was hard to use and doesn't work on all computers. Now it is becoming a bit complicated and could get confusing if we aren't careful.

I think we need to consider this both in the context of a mod maker providing templates, and simply creating a default skin.


Also what I have not mentioned is I am now extremely short of time. We need to release a final test version this week, so that it is tested over the weekend, ready for an official version next week. It won't be the end of mod development, but it will be the start of mods becoming available in our official version. It's important to do this for the holidays. Also I would find it hard to explain to anyone, just how much in need of a break I am.

Have you tried this TEST mode?

Test Patch W52

It contains some minor fixes and an important one - a crash that could come up if you joined a server and viewed other players using mods that were not yet downloaded to your computer.

I wasn't able to improve bike handling in time for this one, but it's worth an update anyway. Use the auto-updater by clicking List of Hosts or manually install by following the link below.

Changes from W51 to W52:

Front torque split setting now shown on the left below centre diff
FIX: Front torque split overlapped final drive ratio with 7 speeds
FIX: Crash that could come up when viewing not yet downloaded mods

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95664

Quote from Scawen :

But, I think, the steerer is not usually drawn in TV camera view, but is drawn in "wheels" view by default, or "follow" view. So I would expect this crash to happen after you changed view, but not immediately when joining the host?

I'd be interested if this was confirmed.

Quote from BeNoM :

Same here! I've just been going into pits immediately until the mod downloads aha

Are you saying you have experienced crashes in the test patch but not reported them?

Guys, what do you think is the purpose of a test patch?

Please can you use the Windows Event Viewer, find the crash event and get the crash address and offset from there (also the timestamp of the faulting module so I can confirm exactly which version of LFS had the crash). I can often track it down to the line where it occurred and then the crash will never happen again. It's not mystical or magical, it's an error that needs fixing.

See Facu's post - that is the information I need: https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1974448#post1974448

Quote from superlame :

Strange o.O I deleted some mods from mods/vehicle folder and downloaded them again and my game didn't crash.

Also for crash logs I have a .txt file in my gamefolder called "crash.txt" but I don't know if its from LFS or some 3rd party app I have like ( Discord Rich Presence, TCLights, TC Binds)

It is astonishing to hear that peopls have been experiencing crashes but not reporting them. Please look in the Windows Event Viewer as described above. Otherwise the crash is likely to remain.

No, crash.txt is nothing to do with LFS.

Quote from detail :

It's been a constant issue since the test patches started. Every day in TC, cops are accused of not having a proper police skin, and civilians -- of carrying a cop skin.

Restarting LFS actually fixes it for a while.

This is fixed in W50, which was released yesterday (through the auto-updater). Are you saying you have observed a similar bug in W50?

I fixed the bug within a few hours of the first report of the bug. It would be most helpful if people do report bugs in test patches, because if I don't hear about them, I'm not likely to fix them!

Quote from htunsal :

When I drive original LFS cars, the driver anim are not correct and loading random FOV and driver anims or driver arms and they are stable not moving. With all the new test patches all were same no anim or random driver FOV and position.

This happens if you did not have version V installed before installing the test patch.

Maybe you had version U installed.

You can fix it with a fresh V install (or patch U_TO_V then V_TO_W49)

Quote from Popughini :

How are people from South America Argentina / Chile / Bolivia / Peru, etc. supposed to have a good ping when we don't have servers with our IP address?

The direct answer is... we have put a server in a very good location in the USA. We hope that will give reasonable results for North and South America.

But I can't really answer. The idea of the test patch is for you to test and give us feedback. For example, you can start a server in America, and let us know what sort of ping you are getting. And race with your friends on that server and tell us how it goes. We really want feedback.

Test Patch W48

Multiplayer:

FIX: Bike steering was incorrectly transferred in multiplayer
FIX: Small wheeled remote cars could go wrong in multiplayer
Partial FIX: Improved name position over cars on high vehicles

Graphics:

Updated car shaders to better reproduce the editor materials
- Variable shine can now be used (alpha channel sets shine level)
- Material type 'overlay or plain' can be used for chrome parts
- Roughness value is NOT supported (specular reflection disabled)
FIX: Parts of some cars appeared transparent in garage (alpha)

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95664

Thanks for the report. My understanding is that when the memory gets quite full, the drivers / D3D can move things around in memory so that the program can keep allocating new items.

It might be with this apparent driver bug that it runs out of memory and fails to allocate when requested. It's possible that LFS assumes that an allocation has worked and goes on using the pointer as if it has worked. If that is the case then LFS could theoretically avoid the crash, but instead there would be missing graphical elements.

I am guessing that if you used a version V (no test patch) you would still get the same problem. I don't think there are any related changes in W47.

Quote from Evolution_R :

At this point it is better to not upload it to LFS.net

It's different since W47. If people want to test their physics it is good to upload and test it online, while they are still working on the model. It won't become *approved* until the texturing is done, but they can have fun with the unfinished mod and get feedback on physical aspects.


By the way on the MZD, there is a drive side issue. I have drive side set to "right" (in Options - Driver) and when I enter the game I end up in the car, with steering wheel on the right but dashboard is on the left.

You should either:
- click "select side" at the bottom left in the vehicle editor to give it a *fixed* drive side.
Or:
- make the dashboard swap sides when the driver changes side.

(I need to make the editor detect this as it is such a common fault)

Last edited by Scawen, Mon 22 Nov 2021, 23:10.

OK, Victor has fixed that and I've tested it with one of my test mods.

It should be OK if you simply upload the same version again (it will end up as version 3).

Test Patch W47

This is an important update and comes along with various website changes. Have a look at any of the mods' own web pages here. You will see some changes there including a comments thread and multiple star ratings.

We now support the concept of "unapproved" and "approved" mods. You can now upload mods in an earlier stage of development and they will be allowed on the system if they are fully legal and reasonable. For example, we won't insist that all the lights work, all texturing is done, animations fit exactly or the shadow mesh is of high quality at this point. You can continue to work on your mod after upload.

If your mod passes initial acceptance then you can now update and publish it without needing reviewers to check the mod each time you do an update.

Such early stage mods will need to receive several good ratings to eventually become approved. Reviewers will need to check the mod thoroughly when the mod has received enough high ratings from community members. There are multiple ratings on each mod's page:

Overall, Technical, Graphical, Physics, Engine Sound

Currently, when at least 60 people have rated your mod and all ratings have at least achieved 4 stars your mod will be eligible to become APPROVED. You do not have to do anything for this, except make improvements to your vehicle mod in order to gain the required level of quality. This is experimental and we expect the number and level of rating required for approval to change over time.

There are filters in game to show unapproved mods (only approved mods are shown by default) and you can select an online host to allow unapproved mods if you like (the default setting is not to show unapproved mods).

We hope this new system allows everyone to use the system for experimentation and online testing, while still making it easy to find high quality mods.


Changes from W46 to W47:

Multiplayer:

New host option "Allow unapproved mods" allows early stage mods
Message "[user name] is connecting..." when someone is joining host

Misc:

New filter to show all mods / approved mods / staff picks only
Removed filter "Include work in progress" on vehicle mods screen
Rating button on vehicle mods screen now links to mod's web page
FIX: Finished refuelling message for EV is now "Finished charging"
FIX: Subobject number plates did not show the correct number plate

Commands:

/unapproved=yes to allow unapproved mods to be used on host
/enforce (and options button) now spectates disallowed mods
/mods=AAAAAA+BBBBBB sets a list of allowed mods (and allows mods)
/mods+=CCCCCC+DDDDDD adds to the list of allowed mods
/mods-=BBBBBB+CCCCCC removes mods from the list
/mods=ALL removes the list of mods and sets /allowmods=yes
/mods=NONE removes the list of mods and sets /allowmods=no
/mods and /cars commands can accept plus or comma as delimiter


Download:

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95664

Last edited by Scawen, Sun 21 Nov 2021, 18:44.

Quote from Jake_Blasted :

After doing the recent update to the P166 the car now has a OOS error when trying to load into a multiplayer game.

Thanks for the bug report. For some reason, the car on the server is different from the full version that arrives on our computers. I'll look into that this morning. For now I have made the car unavailable to avoid people getting OOS online. After I've fixed the problem we'll let you know and you'll be able to upload an update at that point.

It's strange because this hasn't happened with any other mods so far since the public test patch was released. But there must be a reason, hopefully not too hard to find.

EDIT: I expect to start looking into this in at some point in the next few hours. Got another few things on the go too but this is a high priority bug!

Last edited by Scawen, Sun 21 Nov 2021, 09:46.

Quote from superlame :

Hello, I am working on a little XFG project, and trying to make the fog lights work, i mapped them as "l_ffog" they work in the modeler but in game they dont.

Any suggestions?

There is no game control to operate fog lights at this time. But is is a good idea to map them and test them in the editor, so they can work if I add an option to switch fog lights.

Quote from Vladimir_nose :

I think it is not necessary to hire a team, you can find volunteers who, on an official basis, agree on certain criteria - to create lessons on creating a new car.
Income is always an issue and it is difficult to balance between development and making money.
As an idea - add voluntary support for the project - "Donats"
Undoubtedly, people on the forum help each other, but it would be much easier if the answers to many questions were concentrated in some kind of documentation, this would greatly simplify the development and improve the quality of mods, yesterday I randomly noticed the presence of brightness points, which makes it possible to create shadows in the salon, but the question asked by denis-takumi is also relevant for me.

No problem, you are right that not all questions are covered in the documentation.

Some questions are: https://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Vehicle_Mods

We won't be asking for donations or hiring people. It has been incredibly busy before and during this test patch stage. Remember, we are testing now and we are developing as fast as possible for serious issues - currently the whole way mods are accepted or approved. It's more important that the ncl option. I did see Denis's questions and was thinking how to answer it today. It's not very easy to explain how normal contributions work, and might be best demonstrated with a diagram. But I really haven't had that 20 minutes spare today.

Quote from denis-takumi :

Hello Scawen

i found the "Reference point" flag for point and dont understand for what

i see bounding box and dont understand for what


for triangles found normal contribution levels and dont understand for what, because i change it but dont see any changes in editor and in game

Hello Denis.

The "Reference point" is really just a blue point. You can use that blue colour to distinguish it from other points. For example, we have often used it for the vertices of the collision mesh. One other thing, reference points that are unused, are protected from being deleted in the "clean object" function. I think that's about it!

The Bounding box has no real function at all. It is created to include all points, so that could show you if there is a distant point somewhere, that should not be there. But I think you can just ignore this bounding box.

About normal contribution levels: each triangle meeting at a vertex, within the same smoothing group, contributes to the normal of that surface at that vertex. In fact, large triangles have a larger contribution. So for example you could make a simple "hardback book" shaped object and most of the apparent curvature would be on the spine of that book. But the spine would still be contributing to the normals, so the front and back faces of the 'book' would still be a little curved. If, however, you set the "normal contribution level" (ncl) of the spine to zero, then the spine would not contribute to the normals at all. Then the front and back face of the book would look totally flat. Probably better explained with a diagram.

I see what you mean. I've deleted most of my reply 3 posts back as I found it was wrong.

With your export I can reproduce the issue, and I understand that from Rony's post too.

Explanation - you don't need to know this It's related to the special renaming system and because some of the original files have exactly the same file time as each other. When they are specially named (SKINID_XX), they may end up with the same file name as a different texture had on a previous export. When that happens and the file date is the same, LFS thinks it is the same file. This problem can't come up when exporting for upload, because that is always into a clean folder, but does happen in TEST mode as it doesn't clean out the folder.

OK now I get the problem, I'd better think of a solution. For now you can delete the test mod's dds folder in the LFS directory. Thanks for the report and test data!

Last edited by Scawen, Fri 19 Nov 2021, 19:17.

Yes, I'm not getting this result with the shared files.

I do know a situation that can cause this type of effect when TEST mods are used, because test mods don't have protected texture names.

[EDIT: my whole description here was wrong, because I now learned that test mods DO have protected texture names - Sorry about that!]

Last edited by Scawen, Fri 19 Nov 2021, 18:42.

EDIT: The information here is no longer correct as we have a new system for mod approval: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95940


Hello Modders,

We are really impressed by a lot of the mods you have been working on, and are very happy to see so many people learning to use our development tools during this testing period.

So far we have been unable to keep up with the number of mods and updates submitted, so we have decided to impose some time limits. These may well be a temporary measure while we try to figure out other ways to keep the quality high and the update frequency down a bit.

The general idea is to prepare your mod well, test and improve it a lot in single player, hopefully discuss it in the Mods Work in Progress section, then when it's pretty good, submit the first version. That's what we mean by "Work in Progress".

For us, "Work in Progress" doesn't mean you've just started working on it. Obviously work is in progress at that point, but for a submitted mod, it means it's in a good state, really fun to drive, everything works and it is in the final stages of development.

Good mod creators will really take their time to work on a mod. It's not a 10 minute job like in my test video with the UF 1300. More like weeks of work, though this depends on the type of mod you are creating and what source materials you have. The reviewers are far more likely to take an interest in proper mods that add something to Live for Speed. They aren't very inspired by LFS cars with slightly different engine or tyres.

So the new limits are:

Quote :

You can request a first-time mod review only once every 7 days
You can request a review for an updated mod archive once every 48 hours
These time limits are set and measured after each review approval

You can have one pending mod review at any moment

To express that a different way:

Quote :

If you have no mod awaiting approval at all, then:
- You can request a first version mod review if 7 days have elapsed since your last first version mod was approved
- You can request an update review on a mod if 48 hours have elapsed since that mod's last update was approved

We hope this will not cause inconvenience, but instead encourage people to take their time to get things right before submitting new mods or updates.

Thank you!

Last edited by Scawen, Mon 22 Nov 2021, 11:31.